Post by Fufu on Oct 13, 2008 12:03:46 GMT -5
We both know ur just picking a random bug to get back at us!
Hannah:
No, my dear, I'm not picking a random bug. Actually, upon trying to disprove your theories (which I admit,
It is true that logic and science mean nothing to this who jumble of theories
DJ:
I'd have to agree with this except for one fact... Theories are composed of logic, are they not? If it was not for logic, than theories would not have been able to be thought and thus not exist. Logic is the process of making connections and through these connections we think. So, thus, we DO need logic for this debate.
Also, though science may not help us much, it still helps somewhat. Because all of these are theories, we must back them up with as much scientific proof as possible. Thus, the theory with the most proof would have the most relevancy (
Thus, both science and logic are needed in this argument as I stated in another thread:
YES, YES, YOU SILLY TWIT, BUT LET'S MAKE SURE TO NOT FORGET: THE WAR SHALL BE FOUGHT WITH LOGIC AND SCIENCE, AND I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY COMPLIANCE!
IN THE NEW THREAD I SHALL AWAIT, FOR MY IDEALS YOU SHAN'T BERATE! SO LET US BEGIN THIS RIGHTEOUS DEBATE, AND THE WINNER WILL WIN ONLY BY FATE!
^Beat that! c: *smug* (no offense with the "twit" thing by the way... it's all fun and games and it made it rhyme... sort of... if you say forget like i do... where it souns like "fergit"... )
IN THE NEW THREAD I SHALL AWAIT, FOR MY IDEALS YOU SHAN'T BERATE! SO LET US BEGIN THIS RIGHTEOUS DEBATE, AND THE WINNER WILL WIN ONLY BY FATE!
^Beat that! c: *smug* (no offense with the "twit" thing by the way... it's all fun and games and it made it rhyme... sort of... if you say forget like i do... where it souns like "fergit"... )
...ignore the "twit" part. but anyway, science and logic IS needed.
...Though I completely agree with you with the point that all of this *waves to bee conspiracy theories*is pointless and "means nothing."
*what a nice job of twisting words around,eh?... didn't know I had it in me... OLE! <random*
I sort of want to be all logical-scientific and dispute that (The logical fallacies are calling to me~ [image] ), but I'm pretty sure that logic and reasearch hold no weight in this.
But, I will throw this in: Bees are probably around 60 times more radiation resistant than cockroaches.
Enjoy.
But, I will throw this in: Bees are probably around 60 times more radiation resistant than cockroaches.
Enjoy.
KELLY:
(First and foremost, before you do any damage (whether to me or to yourselves), I'd like to see a sourse and proof of where you found that fact... the only thing I've found is that MICE, injected with bee VENOM are have a SLIGHTLY higher radiation survival rate than the originals (link: oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0648139) BUT this is only mice and venom, not the bees themselves. Thus, nothing about bees being radiation resistant. This then suggests, that perhaps the bees have been abducted by aliens and given special venom OR that mice have a special ability vith venom and thus are aliens OR/AND a variety of other conclusions. All of which need facts of course.)
Ah,yes, the fallacies...*pulls out list --YES, I still have it!!!---*
As for the logic and reason, I've answered that before (see "DJ" up above).
Referring to your thrown in fact and the "Enjoy. "
well then... ENJOY THIS, my dear.
Actually, according to this article...
www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2007/03/06/millions_of_bees_die_are_electromagnetic_signals_to_blame.htm
MY theory is correct. And the bees may be DYING from radiation, not resistant to it. It's supposedly causing them much stress...
It also supports my theory, that the bees dying are dying because of us. There's LOTS of info in there *brag*hahaha--slap'd--
... It's a rather long article, so if you care to read through just the first two major sections (the intro and the part on GWEN), then you should have the info. There are also various other websites located within the article, though some are in other languages.
OH, and here's another site with a timeline....inthesenewtimes.com/2008/05/15/the-disappearing-bees-ccd-and-electromagnetic-radiation/
Also, in the article it mentions something about bees using electromagnetic signals to communicate... You may claim "SO THEY'RE ALIENS." Yes, if you think critically, are they not dying from them too? HYPOTHETICALLY, and just hypothetically, if bees were aliens, wouldn't they be much more advanced than us (according to the common idea of alien intelligence)? And, IF they were aliens, would they not be on a mission to destroy us--as some of you I HIT RABBIT-ers suggest? Then, if they are, THEY ARE FAILING. And we are in no danger whatsoever.
...I also had a few other points but I've already forgotten... *muses*
AND: are the COCKROACHES being affected by this? NO. The cockroaches are by far superior in this area.
HANNAH *again*:
Ahem... If cockroaches are not considered aliens because they came here too early, then the same would go for bees. Take a look at this:
The ancestors of bees were wasps in the family Crabronidae, and therefore predators of other insects. The switch from insect prey to pollen may have resulted from the consumption of prey insects that were flower visitors and were partially covered with pollen when they were fed to the wasp larvae. This same evolutionary scenario has also occurred within the vespoid wasps, where the group known as "pollen wasps" also evolved from predatory ancestors. Up until recently the oldest non-compression bee fossil had been Cretotrigona prisca in New Jersey amber and of Cretaceous age, a meliponine. A recently reported bee fossil, of the genus Melittosphex, is considered "an extinct lineage of pollen-collecting Apoidea sister to the modern bees", and dates from the early Cretaceous (~100 mya).[4]
100 million years ago... Is that not early enough for you? Not quite as far back as cockroaches, (354-295 mya--see quote below) but still during the dinosaurs.
Here's a link of the time scale:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_timescale
Mantodea, Isoptera, and Blattaria are usually combined by entomologists into a higher group called Dictyoptera. Current evidence strongly suggests that termites have evolved directly from true cockroaches, and many authors now consider termites to be a family of cockroaches,[3][4] as Blattaria excluding Isoptera is not a monophyletic group.[1]
Historically, the name Blattaria has been used largely interchangeably with the name Blattodea, though in most recent treatments, the latter name refers to a larger grouping that includes numerous fossil groups that were related to roaches, but not true cockroaches themselves. Another name, Blattoptera has come into use for this same paraphyletic group.[5] These earliest cockroach-like fossils ("Blattopterans" or "roachids") are from the Carboniferous period between 354–295 million years ago. However, these fossils differ from modern cockroaches in having long ovipositors and are the ancestors of mantids as well as modern cockroaches. The first fossils of modern cockroaches with internal ovipositors appear in the early Cretaceous.
Historically, the name Blattaria has been used largely interchangeably with the name Blattodea, though in most recent treatments, the latter name refers to a larger grouping that includes numerous fossil groups that were related to roaches, but not true cockroaches themselves. Another name, Blattoptera has come into use for this same paraphyletic group.[5] These earliest cockroach-like fossils ("Blattopterans" or "roachids") are from the Carboniferous period between 354–295 million years ago. However, these fossils differ from modern cockroaches in having long ovipositors and are the ancestors of mantids as well as modern cockroaches. The first fossils of modern cockroaches with internal ovipositors appear in the early Cretaceous.
So, since BOTH bugs were in existence during the "time of the dinosaurs" as you say, then according to what you say, NEITHER of them are aliens. And to prove that bees are, you would most likely be proving that cockroaches are as well.
This quote also suggests that, according to my theory where cockroaches are aliens, termites may be as well.
DJ *again*:
And i have so say even against my fellow rabbit hitter that unless the earth became part of a space highway where multiple alien races were constantly traveling to and from earth an alien would never be considered an earthling.
Actually, this notion is very possible. I stumbled upon a video once (this isn't the exact one but it still has the same guy talking about the smae thing, but then cuts off...) and sciencetists believe that that's very possible. It's called multiple universes. Take a look at this video (the multiple universe thing starts commwhere around seven minutes or so, but I suggest you listen to the other part--talks about aliens.*lol*:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLQgJpwdow
And then in the one I originaly saw, he went on to say that these little universes were connected by paths... almost like umbilical cords. so, yes your idea is quite possible.
NOW to BOTH HANNAH & DJ:
So, thus, it's very possible that universes were connected by a highway. And if that is possible, then the aliens may have come to earth millions of years ago. So, if it were true, that "since they (cockroaches) were here before, they're now considered earthlings" (I'm paraphrasing you guys), then bees would be considered earthlings AS WELL. Now, if you decide that that's not true, then BOTH bees and cockroaches (and possibly termites--see above) are aliens.
Also, Micho Kaku (the guy talking) mentions at one point--before he starts talking about multiple universes--that we are arrogant. Why do we think that the aliens will come visit us? Why would they WANT to? Shouldn't we visit them, or some such? So, maybe, just maybe, cockroaches and bees (and termites) aren't aliens. We just THINK so because we think we're THAT cool and that they'd just love to come and see us.
So, our question has now been modified...
Question #1:
First off, are BOTH bees/cockroaches (and possibly termites) aliens, or are they not?
--To this we must answer yes, BOTH may be aliens OR no, NEITHER of them are aliens. If no, argument ends there. Simple and easy. If yes, BOTH or AT LEAST ONE of them are aliens we may go on...
Question #2:
So then we ask, is there a DIFFERENCE between the two? Is just one of them an alien and which one? or are BOTH aliens? Is there something that makes one an alien and the other not? And what about termites?
--This was our original question (minus termites) and this is our ultimate goal. Obviously, if we have already answered NO to number 1, this no longer matters to us for it has been answered. If, however, we've answered yes, we must continue on to our original matter and debate the question.
SO...
First we must answer question 1. Then we may go on to number 2.
and do not forget to support with facts, other theories, logic, and science...
BY THE WAY...
If you haven't bothered to read this all the way through, and continue to argue, then I will consider that blasphemous and that you have forfeited. Why? Because you have not complied to the rules of debate by respecting my rebuttal. And because if you're just plain lazy then you obviously don't care enough about your cause to defend it. Meaning you loose.